The T70 continuation series - a great idea?

Moderators: Gerald Swan, Glyn Jones, Johan

Postby avasports » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:54 pm

Hello Bill, Johan, Gerald,
Thanks for the welcome. As noted, Gerald and I have established a solid line of communication, and he has been patient with my ramblings. I expect to send him some more pics and info as soon as I can. Gerald, pls feel free to post some of those pics here, should you find it proper. The rights on them should be AvaSports...as for Mr. Sacoman, I would love to have an answer from him (and all material, docs, chassis, etc. back !).
Avallone's (the cars and the driver) heritage had been left down a little after my dad passed away, while we (the sons) kept busy in our own lives, thinking we had it on good hands to restore and preserve - obviously, Mr. Sacoman was a bad choice.
Myself, being the youngest son and living in the US, did not get so involved in this process, but I will now, and I intend to rescue some of it.
Thanks for your attention, and pls keep tuned !
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on being the same

Postby 561 » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:02 am

I have a T292 (which does pass T70's) that I believe has been raced more or less continuously from inception (altho it's history in the 70's is unclear). I know that it has a replacement motor, some replaced body panels, parts of the tub that look suspicously recent, and I race it with non original wheels. My assumption is that it is an old race car with history, diverse experience, and a background major maintenance and restoration. Similarly, I have a replacement knee, a brain that has been worked on (no perceivable upgrades, however), and a number of broken and mended parts. My assumption is that both the T292 and I are orginals....just not what we used to be.

Of course, reasonable people could differ.

Greg
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Postby Johan » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:41 pm

Well said !
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Original?

Postby RSFCA » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:36 pm

I personally have been searching for history and documents regarding my T160 for some time now both on this forum as well as around the country. This makes me stop to ponder why I was even bothering to do so. The “purists” are questioning authenticity for monetary considerations in the resale market. After considerable efforts to uncover a resemblance of it’s history, it became very clear that these cars were built for a purpose and when they were through with them, they became obsolete. If a car was seriously raced, it was usually seriously damaged, changed, altered to be more competitive or turned into something else. It makes me think back to why I bought the car in the first place. I wanted to race it, hear it, see it on the track and enjoy the time at the vintage races. To do that, it must be safe. Anyone I have spoken with that has been doing this for any time tells me that they would not even get in an original chassis and take it on a track if it was totally original. They are old, weak, thin or fatigued. So what are you going to do with an original chassis with all of their original parts (if they have any)? Put it in a museum? This brings us back to this thread. A car with a period correct chassis ID plate or an original tub may be appealing to some, but personally I would feel better about driving one of these new continuation cars. I think they will serve a purpose as long as people are buying them for the right reason.
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Postby Bill_Lester » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:49 pm

Well said 561 and RSFCA. The issue of "authenticity" is much more a problem for those headed to Barrett-Jackson or Bonham's than it is to someone with helmet in-hand at Laguna Seca or Goodwood. The Continuation Series is a great idea and will allow a very fortunate few to enjoy these grand old cars at speed but in a safer environment than a well-worn original.
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Lola T70 Continuation

Postby sunoco » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:49 am

Personally, I am against the continuation cars. I don't understand how it would benefit any original T70 owners unless the factory plans to offer new tubs, uprights, fiberglass molds,etc. for sale so that owners of original cars can maintain them more easily. From where I sit the only party that benefits is the factory. Ask anyone about the so-called Shelby continuation cars. You can call them continuation but it's just another term for "factory replica so we can make more money." Nothing wrong with making money just don't insult our intellingence.

Secondly, Lola has done a poor job of creating brand awareness of the old cars in North America. You can't even buy any swag i.e. T-shirts, caps, etc on this site that glorifies the Lola name. They're non-existant from a corporate standpoint at any major vintage event i.e. BRIC, Monterey Historics,etc. I have not seen anything from Lola indicating any special presence at any of the 40th Can Am Anniversary races this summer and this is especially troublesome from a company that touts its "tradition of success" and won the first Can Am season in 1966. I bet Lola has built more race cars than any other manufacturer yet it has never been the featured marque at any of the Monterey Historic events. Why? My feeling is that they really don't care about their tradition or they'd make more of an effort like Porsche, Ferrari, etc.

Regarding this site, all it seems to be is a forum. There's no effort to create anything approaching a Registry for the different models or help owners of original cars do a better job maintaing the ORIGINAL cars that helped make Lola what it is today. Where are all the pictures of the owner' cars? How difficult can it be to get that done on this web site? If you want stories and pictures of the old cars then provide a place to put them and make it easy to put them there.

I'm done for now. Bottom line, there's nothing special being done on the part of Lola cars or the managers of this web site to do anything that honors the Lola Heritage. Give me the job of North American Lola Liaison, some factory resources and a modest budget and I could do a much better job.
"The experiences with those Lolas did a lot for my career." Mark Donohue
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Postby DJSILLS » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:11 pm

sunoco, I agree. And how about the T332? If the factory helped out with some high quality replacement parts, more cars would be on the track, a new generation would see how cool these cars were, owners would save money and Lola would make money.
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Postby Johan » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:13 am

I enjoy this site and it is what we make it.
Why not post some sort of interesting article about your car ?
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Postby Gerald Swan » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:22 pm

Hi sunoco, sorry but as the Heritage webmaster I'm a bit confused by your comments about the site :?, the Forum is just a small (but very important) part of the site.

The Registry pages (have a look at http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/history/register.htm and as an example try clicking on the T212, T160, T163 or T70 Spyder links) are being developed all the time. As any owner who has contacted me since the site has been relaunched will tell you I'm constantly nagging them for pictures and details about their cars :).
The "Welcome" page (linked from the Home page http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/welcome/welcome.htm) emphasises that we want contributions from both owners and anyone who feels they can add to the Lola story.

Without giving too much away (in case I jinx it!) there should shortly be a number of articles appearing about some of the early Lola models by the people who REALLY know what they are talking about.

Further I have currently working my way through the Lola Archives with the intention of making as much of it as is possible accessible from the site. If anybody has any questions about the old Lola cars both Glyn Jones and I will do our best to answer them or point people in the direction of somebody who can help. If you look at some of the other threads on the Forum hopefully you can see what I mean.

I can speak from personal experience that Lola are supportive of both the Heritage site and their own History and I think this will become clear in the coming months.

Lola Heritage is about all aspects of Lola so expect to see reports on ALMS, Champcar and British F3 amongst other things (the A1GP reports will give you an idea) and if anybody is attending any Historic meetings anywhere in the world please, please, please send phots and if possible a bit of a write up.

We will also be developing further aspects of the Heritage site in the near future, the "Drivers" section is a priority as is the addition of a "Scrapbook" section where we can add all sorts of interesting contributions.

We are also getting a lot of support from the owners, it would be a long list if I named everyone but as an example people like Johan on this Forum and a look at the Registry pages for people like Scott Emerson or Marc Devis will illustrate my point.

Although there is plenty of work to be done I can't emphasise enough that the Heritage site will only be a real success if people contribute to it so sunoco if you've got anything at all you can add whether it is ideas, pictures, articles, whatever, I'm sitting here waiting and you can contact me at gerald@lolaheritage.co.uk.

I hope that the above shows that we are doing a lot to honour the Lola Heritage and a great deal more will be coming in the very near future :).

Gerald.
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Postby sunoco » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:43 am

Gerald,

I think what you're confused about is my contention that there were not any owner pictures of cars or stories of cars submitted by owners. I surfed around the site a little more and found the chassis register, driver information,etc. That's all good. It would have been helpful for me to have a homepage design with a special "owners" link that then directs us to you since you seem to be the focal point for all owner issues i.e. car pictures, car stories, car history, etc. Right now you must slog through a lot of text to get there. It could be that other owners have this same problem because there are so few pictures and histories under the chassis register section. I think I have a lot of interesting things about my car and some of the other Can Am cars of the late 60's. Now that I figured out how to get them posted I will begin to send them to you.

I still feel the replicas, I mean continuation cars, are a bad idea. Also, I believe that Lola can do much more to honor their racing history in the States. All you have to do is look at what Ford, Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari, Chevrolet do at vintage events all over the US. That's where the bar is set. Martin Birrane has raced many times through the years and you'd think he'd be a little more passionate about the old cars. It puzzles me why Lola is so reticent to market themselves and their capabilities at vintage events. Maybe it's a lack of money and that's why they're building five more T70's.

Gerald, you said that Lola is supportive of the Heritage site and their own history and that this will become even clearer in upcoming months. Based on your comments I am hopeful for some Heritage site improvements and will do my part to make it better. Hope to see you in Elkhart Lake in July.
"The experiences with those Lolas did a lot for my career." Mark Donohue
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Postby Gerald Swan » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:23 pm

Sunoco, OK I'll agree the Home page needs a redesign, it's been on my to-do list for several weeks. The current design was done with the intention of featuring the "Welcome" page and the Forum prominently for those visiting the site for the first time on it's relaunch. Now that people are more used to everything we can afford to highlight the various sections a bit more, so keep watching.

On a general point to everyone please feel free to criticise, or praise (I'm only human :)) the site. We're very open to suggestions for things the members want to see.

Back to your comments sunoco, I'm must plead ignorance as to Lola's presence at US Historic events in comparison to the other manufacturers you mention but rest assured that Lola personnel read this Forum so they will be aware of what you are saying. Perhaps some of the other members here would like to add their opinions, remember it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease :lol:.

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Heritage site

Postby RSFCA » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:16 am

Sunoco,

Since this is a forum and opinions are what they are, I am a bit confused by your confusion. You speak of Lola trying to capitalize by producing a continuation car and then criticize them for not marketing and creating brand awareness from a corporate standpoint. If Lola’s mission is to sell race cars and not street cars, they create brand loyalty by constructing winners. Ford, Lotus, Porsche, and Ferrari need to advertise their products and influence purchase decisions. Brand awareness is essential for mass marketing but not a specialty house. I agree that as an Lola owner that we are all proud to wear a Lola hat and tell a story about Lola’s success. I am not sure why they don’t sell merchandise either on the new site because they did before it was updated. I have two hats, three shirts and a jacket that I bought here. Gerald, is that being revisited?

As far as this site goes, I would like to emphasize the positive movement regarding the efforts that have been made to date and express my appreciation for what has taken place. Glyn and Gerald have been very gracious to accommodate any request of the users and have shown a commitment to show that Lola does appreciate their heritage and the owners of their cars.

Nick
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Postby robbeddington » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:55 am

I'm with you all the way Nick.

I don't see any websites from Ford dedicated to the history of every GT40 ever made and offering webspace to existing owners. Likewise Porsche for owners of surviving 904s/906s etc, etc.

I think Glyn and Gerard are doing a fabulous job here. Dare I say that the Lola Heritage website offers more for Lola's brand image than the Lola Group website? Well done chaps!

As for support in the USA, Sunoco (Patrick?) definitely has a point. This must be Lola's biggest market and it's a shame that factory support for the T70 'continuation' does not appear to be extending across the Atlantic in any big way at the moment. No doubt budgetary issues come into play but a tie-in with a US agent would surely do wonders for the brand.

Johan - check out:

Image

Cheers - Rob
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Postby Johan » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:30 pm

Yes, those are the wheels (above) I have. Is that Skip's old car ?




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Last edited by Johan on Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Napolis » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:14 pm

I agree that the web site is a great step forward and I think the continuation cars esp. as it is fully disclosed as to what they are a good thing too. Will Lola be selling spares? Is there a spares list available?
What size wheels are available?

Best

SL-71 32 Re bodied as a IIIB Coupe

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